Talk:Power

Storage Units
In the table under power sources, there are instances of "4 units/s" and "1 bar/s" being used, which if I understand correctly, are the same thing. Perhaps these should be updated to be consistent, one or the other. --RadioRoscoe (talk) 07:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Why are Amps used?
Can someone provide an argument in favor of using amps to measure power instead of watts (the SI unit for power)? This whole wiki seems to be laboring under the misconception that power production of generators of various kinds, and power consumption of devices, can be measured in Amps, which it cannot. In a DC system, the current flow (I) in a circuit is determined by the voltage (V) of the power source and the resistance (R) of the circuit (I=V÷R). In this scenario, what is being supplied is voltage and the amperage is a calculated value, not a constant or inherent one. It's a minor issue so you all can ban me if you want but I find it frustrating to read a direct statement saying that power can be measured in Amps, when that's totally false. Power over time is also a problematic phrasing because Power(Watts)=Voltage(V)×Amperage(I). None of these precursor units have time in them, so dividing power by time is meaningless. Watts×Seconds=Joules Watts÷Seconds≠anything. I'm not saying the wiki needs to be full on Systeme Internationale with every unit used, but amperage is the wrong choice. I would be willing to make all of the edits to bring the entire wiki into line myself if I weren't sure that would get me banned. I really like Astroneer, but I also have an undergraduate degree in Physics and reading "The unit of measurement for power transfer over time for reference is A, for Amps or Amperes" causes me physical pain. Because not only is this very wrong but as I've mentioned, the phrase "power over time" is meaningless. Also of note is the fact that real rechargeable batteries are often rated in amp-hours and not watt-hours. This is because it makes the math easier and more widely applicable to various voltage load devices in this scenario, by dividing out the voltage from the watt-hour measurement (for Liion batteries its often somewhere between 3.0v and 4.2v but 3.6v is the standard.) These measurements could easily be converted to watt-hours by multiplying by the nominal voltage. Thanks, Bruce mangosteen (talk) 19:53, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey Bruce, we currently have a question in with the dev team to clarify if there is an official term they are using to describe power consumption. We are going to hold off on any changes until they get back to us. Better to wait than to edit twice. DystopiaGuy (talk) 20:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Amps is used to measure current, so it makes sense to talk about amps for modules, vehicles, etc. For batteries, it makes more sense to talk about volts since they represent stored power.  Watts is just the product of these two; it might make sense to use watts to talk about unlocking gateways or unlocking science modules encountered throughout the planets.  Bbp9857 (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * DystopiaGuy, Thank you for the clarification. I knew there was no official terminology from the devs but I didn't know someone had asked.  I can appreciate that edits are being reserved for when the response is received, but I'd like to point out that it does not in fact make sense to talk about amps for devices that draw power, unless the voltage of that draw is known.  Without a known voltage, amperage cannot be equated to power (P=IV). The only unit applicable to power, when nothing is assumed, is watts.  The capacity of batteries also cannot be measured in volts, because volts do not represent stored energy as you assert.  Voltage is a measure of difference in electrical potential between two points, and can be thought of as water pressure in the water-pipe-analogy, whereas amperage can be equated to flow velocity in the pipe.  Resistance is equated to pipe diameter in this analogy.  Battery capacity could be measured in Joules(=1 volt × 1 coulomb OR 1 watt × 1 second), but I think Bars is more user friendly in this scenario, and I have no problem with that (not that my having a problem is a direct criterion for change).  What I do have a problem with is the fact that amps is the current unit accepted by the community, in large part due to misinformed youtubers, and this wiki.  If a judgment is to be made by the devs on the issue, the easiest cop-out for them would just be to say that what we've been using all this time is what it's gonna be, because an in-depth understanding of electricity and how electrical power is measured is not common among people who don't seek out that information, or pay $45,000/year and incur huge debt to have it force-fed into their brains.  I am concerned that the fact that amps is the current (incorrect) standard will influence any decision made on the part of the devs.  It's not a great argument as to why this needs to be changed before then, but it is an argument.  For now though I think the second line under the unit of measurement header is super problematic and needs to go or be heavily changed, even if amps continues to be the unit of choice.  It is presented as scientific fact, not as a nomenclature explanation specific to this game, which is misleading.   I look forward to hearing back from you.  Thanks,
 * Bruce mangosteen (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey Bruce, I threw a quick edit at the Unit of Measurement section to try and remove the "this is scientific fact" idea. I personally would like to move away from "Bars" just because they are SO non-standard. Some bars are actually equal to a Bar, other's aren't. Some are "Columns." I agree voltage is incorrect for capacity, but I'd rather a uniform unit be used. Cutting note short.
 * DystopiaGuy (talk) 21:23, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

The Unit Issue
I noticed that the Amperes (A) were all changed into Units (U). The edit summary was "Update Amps to Units based on Developer feedback", so I wonder if anyone could share this link of the developer's feedback please? This might be helpful for future discussion. Thank you!

Now let's talk about the issue. I hope it's clear that there need to be two units to describe most of the things about Power. One is the amount of energy stored in Batteries or Resources, while the other is the rate of energy being produced/consumed/transfered. These two units should be connected by time.

Currently, Unit#1 is Bar/Column, which comes from the Batteries; and Unit#2 is Unit. The problem of this pair is that they are not connected by time. It would be much better if the two units are connected by time, Second preferred, since if so there will be such a formula:


 * Energy = Rate × Time(s)

It can be very helpful for players to calculate one while two others are known, without any kind of unit conversion.

Before the A to U change, I noticed this problem and used Coulomb (C), which is an SI Unit (C=A·s), to describe Energy (though Amount of Charge actually) while translating this page into its ZH language version. One Bar would be 4C (though Coulombs don't come to be so large actually). With this unit, time in seconds can be easily calculated. It's assumed that the voltage is constant in the whole system, so it somewhat obeys the rules in reality.

After the A to U change I was thinking about starting this discussion. Then I noticed the last discussion about it: by. I'm not sure if developers have their own terms. But if not, after reading this discussion, I would suggest this plan:

Joule (J) be used to describe Energy, while Watt (W) be uesed to describe Power. Both of them be standard units. Also, Small Battery or Bar be used as a non-standard but more intuitive unit for Energy, just like the unit Calorie.

The advantages would be:
 * Easier to calculate time
 * Compatible with SI
 * Obeying actual physics rules

I really don't think "Unit" is a good idea, since there need to be at least two units to describe both battery and power source. I will always suggest a pair of units connected by second. Even if it is "Unit", the "U" is also a little superfluous. It would be better to omit it, with the numbers alone.

Hope all above clarifies it. Thanks for reading this idea, regardless of your opinion:) 1479hh (talk) 20:43, 2 March 2019 (UTC)


 * If the Joule (J) was to be used as a unit, would it be accurate and in accordance with the real world?
 * If so, how could this be measured/calculated from in-game mechanics?
 * If not, what will be the base for all other values?
 * I hope that makes some sense :/ --Manby1 (talk) 21:21, 2 March 2019 (UTC)


 * It's not, at least before developers provide a base value. So we can define the Power of a Shelter as 1W (1U now), then the Energy it produces in a Second as 1J (ought to be 1U·s). It is quite little in real world, but everything else is almost the same, including the method of defining the units :) 1479hh (talk) 00:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey guys. The discussion was on the discord server in the gamepedia channel a while ago, the devs were asked by one of the mods for clarification on the official term use dofr power in the game, and they got back to us with Units. Most likely all power will need to be checked again, but the plan is to change output to U/s and storage as U, measured by how long it takes to fill with 1U. If you'd like to tlak more about it join the official discord and poke a mod (Gina typically) for access to the wiki channel and tell them I sent you. Sdkphoenix (talk) 23:20, 2 March 2019 (UTC)


 * U and U/s is not bad! The point of my suggestion was actually just "two units connected by Second", and the J and W was an example. Gonna check it on Discord! Thank you! 1479hh (talk) 00:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)